EXCLUSIVE! DEADWOOD/JOHN FROM CINCINNATI ACTOR JIM BEAVER RESPONDS TO MY MILCH BLOG
Well this is a first, at least for me and this little Blog.
Last night I published an entry featuring a letter to Deadwood and John From Cincinnati creator/writer David Milch. I certainly did not write and post it with the belief that anyone besides my family and friends would actually read it, let alone anyone remotely involved with the topic at hand.
This changes everything.
Below is the email I received from actor Jim Beaver (pictured above), who played Ellsworth on Deadwood and Vietnam Joe on John From Cincinnati. He was quite upset with my article, but provides a very detailed rebuttal in response. Frankly, he rips me a new one but I kind of deserve it. I obviously did not have all of the facts regarding the cancellation of Deadwood and birth of John From Cincinnati. I am not apologizing or retracting my post; it stemmed from an honest reaction after watching both series and reading multiple news stories about the subject.
I respect Mr. Beaver as an actor, and totally appreciate the time he took to pen a very passionate response to one blogger's opinion. He took a risk by sharing some of this information, but I asked and he granted me permission to reprint his email here. He stated that "some of what I said is my impression of events, but I believe them to be true. I'm sure that everyone involved with the shows would have his or her own perspective. This was mine." I was thrilled but surprised, because some of what he has to say about HBO, Milch and John From Cincinnati is quite eye-opening and potentially controversial.
So here is the original email, in his exact words:
"Hey there.
I just read your David Milch blog, and I have to say it got my dander up. There's an awful lot wrong with your conclusions.
David had no intention whatsoever of replacing Deadwood with JFC. He fought long and hard to keep Deadwood on the air. He was furious at what HBO ultimately decided. He then spent several weeks trying to raise capital independently to keep Deadwood on the air by subsidizing the production costs, which were enormous. He was unable to do so.
JFC was written, in its earliest version, before Deadwood ever started. David had every intention of doing both shows, just as most other TV producers with a hit show choose to expand on that success with second or third shows (see David Kelley, Dick Wolf, etc.). Development for a show can take a year, often more. David, I believe, never dreamed HBO would drop one show before its time in order to pick up the new one. He expected (or hoped) they would do both. The day he told me that Ellsworth was going to be killed, he said he knew how hard it would be for me to see Deadwood go on without me, but that HBO had promised him a second show and that I'd be on that. He made it very clear that he believed that both shows would be in production -- not at the same time, but alternating, so that when Deadwood's season finished airing, JFC's would start, and back and forth. He was dumbstruck, just like the rest of us, when HBO decided to take on the new show and let the (more expensive) one they were splitting profits with Paramount on die. To accuse him of choosing to drop Deadwood in order to do JFC is just wrong, and it pains me greatly to hear it, because I know how trying that time was for David.
It's none of my business whether you liked JFC. Loads of people did, loads of people didn't. I was on it and I had problems with it, sometimes big problems, in terms of following the dramatic threads. But no one who has ever been present at the creation of a David Milch show would accuse him of the Mix-Master approach you described. I understand a little of what David was trying to do with JFC, and I can promise you that his quest to bring sense and meaning and order to his perception of the human community was no less engaged on JFC than it was on Deadwood. It's widely said that David is a genius and I am in the camp that believes that. In fact, I thought I knew what a genius was until I met David and found out what one really is. But what's not said, but what is an increasingly vivid part of my experience with him, is that there is something -- dare I say? -- holy about what he wants to do with the lowly tools of television. I don't mean that every crumb dropping from his mouth should be revered. It's just that I've never experienced anything in my life like the devotion to humanity that I see in him in his creative process. He's got more money than God, yet he lives simply. To him it's all about what good he can do with his writing. It's appalling to hear his method on a show that didn't resonate with viewers described in such crass and trivial and dismissive terms as you used. It's painful, because I see every day I work with David the pain he experiences trying to say something that will unite and bandage and assist the human condition.
Deadwood would have been my favorite show even if I hadn't been on it. JFC, on the other hand, would not, because I just didn't get everything David was saying. But I feel it was a noble effort and I'm proud to have been part of it. I wish it and Deadwood could have co-existed as David originally planned. I think a few people might have had quite a different take on JFC if that had happened, because a lot of people weren't going to give it any kind of a shake just because they wrongly perceived that David chose to do it INSTEAD of Deadwood.
I'm hoping David retreads me in his cop show, if it gets made. I would work for him for the rest of my life if he let me. The cop show is mainly the baby of Bill Clark, the former NY cop who partnered with David on NYPD Blue and upon whom it's loosely based. David's production deal with HBO, like most production deals, calls for multiple projects. The cop show, by the way, has been in development for about four years, since before Deadwood started airing. Who knows, if it had been ready a year ago, IT might be the show Deadwood fans hated because David "chose" to do it instead of Deadwood. They'd be just as wrong, but we're not a culture that relies too heavily on facts before making up our minds.
I'm sorry for the rant. So many people, fans and entertainment writers, have publicly excoriated David for things they mistakenly believe he did or wanted or chose, and, while he doesn't need my defense, I feel he is too often unjustly blamed and I get defensive for him. So I hope you'll take my remarks in the spirit of increased understanding in which they were intended." - Jim
Thank you for this article and the letter from Jim Beaver. Vietnam Joe was one of my favorite characters on JFC. I love this series and David Milch is indeed a genius.
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Wow, this explains a lot. Thanks so much for posting this...and Jim, if you're reading...thank YOU for being so candid. I'm sure you cleared up a lot of misunderstandings.
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That is a very cool thing for Mr. Beaver to write to you. I don't think he ripped you at all. He just disagrees and wants to defend someone he is obviously friends with and defend what Milch created.
I'm not knocking your opinion at all. It's really an interesting dilemma!
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Jim,
I loved both Deadwood and JFC. My husband and I were sad to see yet another fine show cancelled.
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Nice use of excoriated, Jim! Thanks for clearing stuff up.
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I never respond to blogs. This time i make an exception. Beaver's response fills in a lot of holes (wholes?). I loved Deadwood, I thought JFC was too obscure, although i watched and somewhat enjoyed it. Deadwood was just so far beyond normal entertainment it hurt to have it die, and it hurt especially to have it die a premature death... but i wish the best for all involved and hope Milch can bring something near as good to the middle screen at some point in the future...
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Not only do I think that Deadwood was the best western ever made, I believe it to be one of the very best television shows ever! As a result of the crass treatment of David Milch regarding Deadwood, I will never watch another HBO show & am dropping my subscription.
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Wow. I've never seen either show, and am only here due to the fact that I'm a fan of Jim Beaver's work on Supernatural.
Having read his response to your blog - I'll now be watching every single thing he acts in. I may be a bit in awe of Mr. Beaver, and love how articulate and informative his response is. The fact that he took the time out to defend something he cares about is inspiring, and he may have just become my favorite famous person.
On a side note, I read your blog. You obviously loved Deadwood, and are saddened by it's untimely demise. The fact that I've watched neither show leaves me unable to comment on it, but I will say I appreciate someone who sticks by her word. You wrote "I am not apologizing or retracting my post; it stemmed from an honest reaction after watching both series and reading multiple news stories about the subject. "... and I'm of the belief that adhering to your convictions is a valuable trait.
That being said, I love me some Jim Beaver.
Thanks for letting me poke my nose into your business,
Michelle.
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Mr. Beaver, thank you so much for your firsthand insight into the complex situations of the entertainment world that those of us not in it just don't get to know. I have loved both Deadwood and JFC, and your work in both shows. Milch IS definitely an inspired genius, that's for sure. Let's all hope that his work can go on as long as possible in whatever ways possible, because his gift definitely needs shared with as many people as possible. I vote for both JFC and Deadwood to experience resurrection, but I will take what I can get.
Thanks Again,
Dan
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Jim--Most of us share your passion about David Milch. DEADWOOD made me a Believer and JFC had enough wondrous moments to keep my faith. Your insights into the back story of the DEADWOOD cancellation and David's efforts to finance it on his own, puts new fire into us DW fans to roar our demands that a full 10-12 episode 4th season be made. Our only fall back position would be those two damn movies. So, Jim (and/or anyone else reading this who can answer the question) Is DEADWOOD REALLY DEAD? The last I've read in Officallease is the chances were 50-50. If JERICHO fans can get CBS' attention with nuts, what can we NEO-DEADHEADS send in massive quantities to HBO? (I have some ideas here...).
Joe O., Chico, CA
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Jim. Thanks for taking the time to really help us in our journey. Just your words have given so much insight to the whole situation. On a quick note: my wife is not the real sensitive type. She does not cry in movies and shows, but, the day Ellsworth got shot, she busted out in tears and said "I am not ever watching this show again" and I said why? She said "Because I love Ellsworth, he is my favorite character ever". Really one of my favorites too. God Bless you on your next project.
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I didn't think people shared a common belief that Milch chose to do JFC rather then DW. The issue at hand, in my opinion, is that he now chooses to do anything but DW, after the fans have fought for a year and a half thinking he was doing the same. As far as I'm concerned, no matter which was put into action, written down or even conceived first, right now Milch is choosing to do another cop show rather then finish DW. If he could've just told someone in the still on-going fan/critic/network battle much earlier in the game, 90% of this fuss could have been avoided and would have never happened. Someone needs to respond to the letter written on the Deadwood message boards and savedeadwood.net. There's not much to argue with there. Sorry for rambling, passionate DW fan.
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In addition to being a talented actor and writer, Jim Beaver is also a hilarious comedian. See a video clip of his comedy performed during his visit to the real Deadwood at The Real Deadwood Podcast website:
http://www.realdeadwoodpodcast.com/video/jim_comedy.html
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Great Read! I loved Deadwood and JFC. Deadwood in my opinion is the best program to ever grace television. I have been reading alot of stuff online about the cancelation of both shows. I had to ask myself why would I ever watch another show done by Milch. Even tho I think he is the most talented writer director around, I don't want to be left angry with unfinished projects anymore. Jim Beaver has answered my questions and put my mind at ease. I can countinue to be a Milch fan and know that it is not his decison or doing that disapoints me. It is HBO.
Saulte and thank you JIM BEAVER!!!!
Saulte David Milch!!!
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I am not given to gushing, but with Deadwood, I simply have no choice: it's the best damned thing that has EVER been on television. In fact, I would rate it as the best thing I have ever seen on the small OR the big screen, and I watch about 4 movies each week. And, yes, I was greatly disappointed to hear of it's cancellation. David Milch, Jim Beaver and the entire cast and crew are to be commended for giving us all such a beautiful work of art. Thank you.
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I have read Jim Beaver's reviews on IMDB.com for a few years now. He has always proved himself an intelligent, thoughtful and scholarly man in his writings. His acting reflects these attributes as well. What he shares in this email is another illustration of this type of man.
Mr. Beaver, I loved "Deadwood" and I would have loved to have seen where "John from Cincinnati" was going. I think I could sit and list to David Milch tell stories all day. And if Mr. Milch wrote the stories, I think I would love to hear you read them and commenting on them.
Thank you for your insights. Thank you for your work. I hope to see you playing on Mr. Milch's team again soon.
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To state it simply; no matter who is responsible for it: JFC was terribly bad; probably the worst TV show since "Cop Rock." I guess a show looks even worse when a creator strives for something filled with pathos; and the projects falls flat on its face. Mr. Milch deserves to be ridiculed by irate fans whenever seen in public for that awful effort. Nobody, who is a true creative genius would ever produce that. Not to say odd visions can't be inspired by genius. View some Kenneth Anger films, to see what I mean.
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Huh? Are you for real? He deserves to be ridiculed by irate fans whenever seen in public? Shall we stone him too?
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That's all fine and dandy but it doesn't explain why Milch isn't holding HBO to the deal they made about the DW movies. So for all of the "sweet talk" of Milch's humanity, I can't forgive him for letting DW drop -- even if JFC wasn't the cause. That doesn't change where we stand today, or why Milch says "it wouldn't be fair to [him] to make DW a priority" as he stated in one interview recently. Why the hell not? It's not fair to the people he sucked in that he isn't making it priority! Milch may be a genius but he's on my $hit list for dumping the DW movies.
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Mr. Beaver's comments are eloquent and impressive, no surprise given his masterful performances in JFC and especially in DW. I don't doubt that Milch faced a tough situation when HBO pulled the plug on DW in favor of a show which turned out to be beautifully written, at times wildly funny, and stupefyingly incoherent--a wild and noble experiment. (I wish HBO had held on to it.) That said, as a reader of David Milch's writing (these shows are as literary as anything out there), I think that Milch fans and HBO viewers should hold both of them to their promises to resolve DW. Any development deal involving Milch & HBO which doesn't include those DW wrap-up projects betrays any of us who had looked to Milch as a writer and producer of extraordinary quality in a huge wasteland of formula garbage. Could these people have so much contempt for an audience who stuck with DW through some initial firestorms (remember the response in some of the press at the language) and who (many of us) hung in with JFC because we trusted Milch and HBO? I am among those who bought the 'DW will be concluded' message. If it's not, I guess I'll consider myself one of those people whom W. C. Fields called a sucker born every minute. If that's the case, though, I'll never waste another dime on HBO -- nor another minute of attention or energy on anything David Milch produces. From a consumer's perspective, trusting him would in that case just not be worth the risk. Jack S
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Hey, thanks for posting this letter by Mr. Beaver. You rarely hear an actor's real thoughts on a project, especially a failed one, and this was clearly the real deal. I for one liked JFC. I almost gave up after episode 1, since I felt it was simply too bunched up, as far as characters, loaded dialogue, etc. Well, I'm glad I hung in there. The last episode, with its opening -- Dylan's Series of Dreams, had me going: This is what I was waiting for. The series seemed to have built to that point. I'll always recall, fondly, the wonderful, hopeful, image of John and Shaun surfing back from "Cincinnati." And the show was about that: Hope. No matter how damaged you are (and check out the lyrics to Dylan's Series of Dreams. Song selection, lyric, and storyline, seem to be always integrated in both DW and JFC). My one complaint about JFC, was also Beaver's regarding the narrative. I grew to accept it, and went with the parts that moved me. Further, I went back and rewatched episode 1, and found that much of what I felt was confusing, was just fine craftsmanship, that revealed itself as the series went on. That's the kind of layering you only find in good novels. Call it the Real Milch effect. It may have only lasted one season, but Milch provided enough closure so that the fans of the show were able to ride that last wave with a smile on their faces.
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Jim, thanks for clearing everything up for us but I already guessed it was the HBO big shots who shut down Deadwood.
Just one thing. Would you please ask Milchy to try really hard to get the Deadwood series concluded and then get HBO to put it all on HD-DVD or Blueray.
I want the series in HD but only if the movies are made to conclude it.
Thanks.
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One example from a European viewer of tv-station going wrong in handling series: The German Pro7 is now famous for cancelling tv-series whenever they feel they don't meet the expected audience quotas (The 4400 season after only 3 episodes, Jericho, and a few others). The result of this being that now the bad word gets around and that hardly any more viewers of tv-series trust Pro7 to keep it up for the full run and consequently will not bother to start watching another series on Pro7 ever again, while other German channels do quite well with their series.
HBO did stick to SIX FEET UNDER and THE WIRE, two series I really like, so why do they not stick to DEADWOOD? I fully agree with John A: if HBO does not conclude some of its series like DEADWOOD, it can actually kiss goodbye a lot of viewers and especially buyers of their series in the new HD and/or Blue Ray format.
cheers - marco
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Echoing many comments above: Deadwood was simply the best show on TV.
I avoid a lot of conversations about it because it hurt so much to have it die like it did. To have HBO pretend like it never existed, as if by ignoring it, their carelessness with such a gem can be forgotten, hurt that much more.
I canceled HBO and will not go back, unless and until they bring back DW for a fitting conclusion.
And if HBO doesn't do this well, in the words of Tom Nutall, " they suck c**k by choice "!
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"They suck c**k by choice" is right on the money. All of those responsible should be bound and blindfolded, and thrown to the mother eff-en pigs.
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Best Western I've seen on TV. Using the venacular of the 1870's, it was as much a joy to listen to as to watch. Absolutely compelling.. I will miss the fun of discovery each week ..HBO needs to reconsider the movies .
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This is a great post. It completely validates my theory that Jim Beaver is the man.
There's still a problem with this (and most) discussions of Milch, Deadwood, and JfC. That is - Five years of loyal viewership just resulted in two unfinished series and a lot of hurt feelings. Being a David Milch fan doesn't turn out very well. Twice my favorite show has been cancelled, and the most information I've ever been given on the subject appeared in an email Jim Beaver wrote to a blog. A genius like Milch should be able to find the problem in this scenario.
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The powers that be in charge of continuing or canceling a show work at networks like cable's HBO. It was HBOs' decision to "not bring back" Deadwood, Carnivale, JFC and Rome. They are left hanging, without closure. This has been done before in the history of television. But I don't know if it has happened to so many shows in such a short time frame with all having a loyal fan base. It seems as though the mindset of HBO (and, sadly, all networks) is, if you're not a hit show at the level of Sopranos or Six Feet Under, you will get canceled...Well, to HBO: without Deadwood, and no intention on bringing back for closure a great show that lasted 3 seasons and accumalated a strong fan base and great reviews, I have canceled YOU.
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Thanks for the letter Jim, and thanks for a powerful performance in the most outstanding western ever. Every episode was a wonder and a pleasure. It captured as no other film or show did the gritty side of life that undoubtedly prevailed in a west that was over glorified and marginalized in the popular culture for about a hundred years.
There was no weak performance - not one. A fan could identify with the characters - something that can only result from powerful writing and believable performances. Deadwood was a gift from David, the actors, and the entire supporting crew. No doubt a lot of work went into every aspect of the production, down to dusting the actors with real dust for an even flintier effect.
Like everyone else, I felt privileged to be able to watch the shows, and cheated when the plug was pulled. Like others, I canceled my HBO subscription after The Sopranos ended. Together with Deadwood, these were shows that should transform television and film for the better. Costly productions, yes, but productions that hold viewers in a grip that will not let go, and that is an essential point. If Deadwood was a loss leader, it pulled viewers to HBO and held them. I no longer feel held. I feel cheated. I feel let down. And I'm still angry.
Jim, your letter was as honest as your Ellsworth character. Thanks for sharing with us. Thanks for a wonderful performance, and appreciate the power that Deadwood held. I wish you roles as strong and challenging in the future.
Thanks also to the blogger for sharing.
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As a Deadwood fan, I can't thank Jim enough for setting the record straight. I know I greatly appreciated the "rant." I've lost all trust in HBO... They jerk everyone (fans and talent it seems) around and never seem to be telling the truth. I've listened to much of Milch's commentary on Deadwood and I too believe he's a genius. HBO should go back to covering boxing, at least then you knew up front you'd be disappointed. I realize the business is still about a dollar, but how many fans can you alienate before we've all had enough? I guess we weren't worth the production cost to HBO. That's cool, HBO isn't worth my subscription.
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Yeah, Milch is a genius and yeah, we're grateful for 3 seasos of DW; that said, he's also a gutless wonder playing geek for the suits at HBO. He couldn't find enuff alternate funding? A few million fans (and that's conservative) would've kicked in $20 apiece, with no strings attached. Maybe a hundred thousand would have gone $50 or more...And yes, respect is due the artist's right to choose just where and how to direct his energy and talent, BUT its a symbiotic relationship and WE are the ones that made him rich and famous and thus able to pursue those creative impulses he so cherishes, so a little bloody consideration for our feelings and wishes would have been nice. So how 'bout it, folks? Shall we just roll over like good little sheep or shall we isolate Mr Milch and leave his projects to the coyotes and tumbleweeds while we watch DW on DVD? And if anyone out there is still tossing out good money for HBO, use Showtime instead and pretty soon HBO will just mean 'has-beens only'...
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Hi, I just found this, so long after it was posted, via your Twitter account and various clicks after.
I am a massive DW fan (and also someone who appreciated JFC, call me crazy)...this letter is a REAL MINDBLOWER. Even if only 30% of this turned out to be true, I cannot thank you enough for sharing it with other DW fans.
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I feel so fortunate that I came upon Deadwood after it's initial run. I work with a guy who physically gushed when he talked about this show, make you ill gush, so I rented 1 disc with the 1st 2 shows on it. Bad mistake, I immediately bought season 1 and 2 on dvd, season 3 hadnt come out yet. The bad mistake wasn't buying the dvd sets, the mistake was getting hooked THEN finding out the show got the hook.
Mr. Beaver, thank you for your candid reply to this blogger but as some before have said, this did not completely remove blame from Milch. This man has written some of the best TV ever, with this I would assume comes a bit of clout. The kind of clout that maybe someone of his stature could use to get his way. The kind of clout where one could say maybe something like "Hey, you want my new series? OK, but first I end my old one."
Mr. Beaver, if I may paraphrase Mr. Ellsworth, "I may have fucked my life up flatter than a sack of hammers, but I stand before you unforgiving of Milch or HBO for their callous inconsideration."
I hope you and the rest of the cast find characters as strong as your Deadwood characters to play in the future, I also hope they receive better treatment Ellsworth got.
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I came to the series very late (just finished the third season on DVD) and like everyone else experienced extremes of denial and disbelief that such a gem (couldn't resist) could be so unceremoniously cast aside. A little searching for answers brought me here. Thanks to Jo and Jim for helping to bring a little clarity to the mystery of the show's untimely demise and aborted resurrection.
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Well.... What does one say after all of that?
I believe that there isn't much more to say other than, I totally agree with all sentiments. It's disgusting, but it seems nothing can be done to bring back a soul changing TV program such as DW.
Thanks to Mr. Beaver for his 'rant,' it was interesting to read, but it still doesn't change the fact that we are left without these shows.
I fear we are being thumbed up the arse. And not in a good way. Isn't that right, Al?
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I love this guy, Jim Beaver. He's a great actor and he did a great job in both Deadwood and JFC. I also loved both of those shows although if I had a choice of one it would be Deadwood. I hear now they are definitely NOT doing the movies. If thats true , they chose poorly. A Deadwood movie would do well and then if they priced the DVD at normal prices and not HBO prices it would sell very well too. I just don't understand how crap like In Treatment is on HBO and they let go of shows like Carnivale and Deadwood. Pure stupidity. That's why Showtime is the place for good TV; no longer can that be said about HBO (except for CYE).
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